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	<title>Comments on: How &#8220;open-source&#8221; is Sakai?</title>
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		<title>By: The Design of Openess &#187; &#8220;I&#8217;m on a mission from Lamb&#8221;</title>
		<link>http://bavatuesdays.com/how-open-source-is-sakai/comment-page-1/#comment-82266</link>
		<dc:creator>The Design of Openess &#187; &#8220;I&#8217;m on a mission from Lamb&#8221;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Aug 2009 21:32:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bavatuesdays.com/how-open-source-is-sakai/#comment-82266</guid>
		<description>[...] quote Brian Lamb from this comment here: I’m reminded of something George Siemens said at a symposium on distributed tool strategies: [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] quote Brian Lamb from this comment here: I’m reminded of something George Siemens said at a symposium on distributed tool strategies: [...]
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		<title>By: University of Virginia and WPMu? Wahoo! at bavatuesdays</title>
		<link>http://bavatuesdays.com/how-open-source-is-sakai/comment-page-1/#comment-80835</link>
		<dc:creator>University of Virginia and WPMu? Wahoo! at bavatuesdays</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 May 2009 10:25:56 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] we did get a rather in-depth look at Collab, their installation of Sakai, which I blogged about here. It seemed apparent after this outing that Sakai was going to meet the needs of UVA, and while WPMu [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] we did get a rather in-depth look at Collab, their installation of Sakai, which I blogged about here. It seemed apparent after this outing that Sakai was going to meet the needs of UVA, and while WPMu [...]
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		<title>By: Don&#8217;t Call it A Blog! at bavatuesdays</title>
		<link>http://bavatuesdays.com/how-open-source-is-sakai/comment-page-1/#comment-67864</link>
		<dc:creator>Don&#8217;t Call it A Blog! at bavatuesdays</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Mar 2008 11:48:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bavatuesdays.com/how-open-source-is-sakai/#comment-67864</guid>
		<description>[...] idea for this paper was inspired by a comment by Brian on a post about the limitations of one of the most &#8220;promising&#8221; open source [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] idea for this paper was inspired by a comment by Brian on a post about the limitations of one of the most &#8220;promising&#8221; open source [...]
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		<title>By: Aeroplane Software: Sakai Consulting &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Sunlight is the Best Disinfectant</title>
		<link>http://bavatuesdays.com/how-open-source-is-sakai/comment-page-1/#comment-54376</link>
		<dc:creator>Aeroplane Software: Sakai Consulting &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Sunlight is the Best Disinfectant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jan 2008 23:35:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bavatuesdays.com/how-open-source-is-sakai/#comment-54376</guid>
		<description>[...] Groom has an excellent post about Sakai from the point of view of a savvy [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Groom has an excellent post about Sakai from the point of view of a savvy [...]
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		<title>By: matt small</title>
		<link>http://bavatuesdays.com/how-open-source-is-sakai/comment-page-1/#comment-32986</link>
		<dc:creator>matt small</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Oct 2007 07:55:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bavatuesdays.com/how-open-source-is-sakai/#comment-32986</guid>
		<description>This debate opens up a few of the big problems with Sakai:

1) It is developed by research universities--and mostly by the top profs and their grad students at these universities.

And naturally they use their own desires and dreams (in code!) for an online system as the primary use cases. But the majority of students in the US are not taught in small, highly independent groups. Maybe they should be, but that model does not scale. 

So for years now Sakai has been an application with great potential, and likely always will be, as it&#039;s funders really have little understanding or interest in facilitating the day to day activity of a common teacher teaching hundreds to thousands of students.

As such, Sakai largely replicates the functionality of Postnuke, Drupal, Xoops, etc. and as they do, fails when matched with Blackboard for meeting the needs of usual teachers.

Of course the white elephant in the room has a name with two os, and must not be taken seriously as it is not java and all the profs at all the R1s _know_ that serious applications are written in java--the big grantors don&#039;t give real money to PHP projects, period. 

And this is not about providing better teaching tools, improving student learning, or about making teachers lives easier, ok--it is about the &#039;best&#039; faculty at the &#039;best&#039; institutions getting funded to do work that interests them, people who are looking for a usable tool  for common users at non-premier institutions to come from this process are going down the Huron with a theoretical paddle that has great potential to one day move water...

But hey, &quot;Together we stand, divided we fall...Goodbye Chenga&quot; and all that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><img style='float: right; margin-left: 10px;' src='http://www.gravatar.com/avatar.php?gravatar_id=9b3beb29ddaaa247d2db994821f08bfd&amp;size=60&amp;default=http%3A%2F%2Fuse.perl.org%2Fimages%2Fpix.gif' alt='' />This debate opens up a few of the big problems with Sakai:</p>
<p>1) It is developed by research universities&#8211;and mostly by the top profs and their grad students at these universities.</p>
<p>And naturally they use their own desires and dreams (in code!) for an online system as the primary use cases. But the majority of students in the US are not taught in small, highly independent groups. Maybe they should be, but that model does not scale. </p>
<p>So for years now Sakai has been an application with great potential, and likely always will be, as it&#8217;s funders really have little understanding or interest in facilitating the day to day activity of a common teacher teaching hundreds to thousands of students.</p>
<p>As such, Sakai largely replicates the functionality of Postnuke, Drupal, Xoops, etc. and as they do, fails when matched with Blackboard for meeting the needs of usual teachers.</p>
<p>Of course the white elephant in the room has a name with two os, and must not be taken seriously as it is not java and all the profs at all the R1s _know_ that serious applications are written in java&#8211;the big grantors don&#8217;t give real money to PHP projects, period. </p>
<p>And this is not about providing better teaching tools, improving student learning, or about making teachers lives easier, ok&#8211;it is about the &#8216;best&#8217; faculty at the &#8216;best&#8217; institutions getting funded to do work that interests them, people who are looking for a usable tool  for common users at non-premier institutions to come from this process are going down the Huron with a theoretical paddle that has great potential to one day move water&#8230;</p>
<p>But hey, &#8220;Together we stand, divided we fall&#8230;Goodbye Chenga&#8221; and all that.
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		<title>By: Yitna Firdyiwek</title>
		<link>http://bavatuesdays.com/how-open-source-is-sakai/comment-page-1/#comment-27955</link>
		<dc:creator>Yitna Firdyiwek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Sep 2007 15:42:27 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Jim,

LinkTool was originally created by folks at Rutgers University who designed it to address the need to hook &quot;legacy applications&quot; into Sakai.  It is still not part of the core tools of Sakai, but is available for those who want to turn it on.  In order for your application to be hooked in, it has to be able to consume web services supplied by Sakai.  We work with ColdFusion and PHP and both scripting languages have built-in web service capabilities.  What we had to do is retro-fit our applications&#039; login pages to process the web service information from Sakai (user, role, etc.).  LinkTool creates secure connections between Sakai and the application, so once the connection is made, we can trust the authenticated information about the user.  Once your&#039;ve got it to work, there is a lot more you can do to communicate other information between your application and Sakai.  

LinkTool works, but is not a finished product -- I&#039;m not sure it&#039;s value is fully appreciated even by Sakai developers yet.  But in my opinion, that&#039;s what makes me forgive a lot of the surface weaknesses of the tool and see the possibilities.  Your last comment is right on target: &quot;I wonder if Sakai promises more robust possibilities for collaboration than a handful of smaller, more agile tools that might be shaped into a larger, more heterogeneous learning network through which we can reflect and archive the mind of a university in a host of more flexible and portable formats.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><img style='float: right; margin-left: 10px;' src='http://www.gravatar.com/avatar.php?gravatar_id=1739a4602c753cf1fc58475e55e909a8&amp;size=60&amp;default=http%3A%2F%2Fuse.perl.org%2Fimages%2Fpix.gif' alt='' />Jim,</p>
<p>LinkTool was originally created by folks at Rutgers University who designed it to address the need to hook &#8220;legacy applications&#8221; into Sakai.  It is still not part of the core tools of Sakai, but is available for those who want to turn it on.  In order for your application to be hooked in, it has to be able to consume web services supplied by Sakai.  We work with ColdFusion and PHP and both scripting languages have built-in web service capabilities.  What we had to do is retro-fit our applications&#8217; login pages to process the web service information from Sakai (user, role, etc.).  LinkTool creates secure connections between Sakai and the application, so once the connection is made, we can trust the authenticated information about the user.  Once your&#8217;ve got it to work, there is a lot more you can do to communicate other information between your application and Sakai.  </p>
<p>LinkTool works, but is not a finished product &#8212; I&#8217;m not sure it&#8217;s value is fully appreciated even by Sakai developers yet.  But in my opinion, that&#8217;s what makes me forgive a lot of the surface weaknesses of the tool and see the possibilities.  Your last comment is right on target: &#8220;I wonder if Sakai promises more robust possibilities for collaboration than a handful of smaller, more agile tools that might be shaped into a larger, more heterogeneous learning network through which we can reflect and archive the mind of a university in a host of more flexible and portable formats.&#8221;
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		<title>By: jimgroom</title>
		<link>http://bavatuesdays.com/how-open-source-is-sakai/comment-page-1/#comment-27655</link>
		<dc:creator>jimgroom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Sep 2007 16:04:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bavatuesdays.com/how-open-source-is-sakai/#comment-27655</guid>
		<description>Yitna,

Thanks for the clarification about LinkTool, I was hoping the iframed integration was not the extent of it.  How exactly is Sakai going to integrate these external tools using this tool?  It was not clear to me and I would love some more information on this.  I imagine this would be a key component of joining a number of the &quot;smaller&quot; best of breed tools. Is the integration of these tools through LinkTool something a Java programmer would have to create? --or is it out-of-the-box? --or are these extensions/modules already available?

I guess I have a lot more to learn about the inner-working of Sakai, and I&#039;m glad you responded here because I&#039;m sure my impression of Sakai was far from entirely accurate.  At the same time, I wonder if Sakai promises more robust possibilities for collaboration than a handful of smaller, more agile tools that might be shaped into a larger, more heterogeneous learning network through which we can reflect and archive the mind of a university in a host of more flexible and portable formats.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><img style='float: right; margin-left: 10px;' src='http://www.gravatar.com/avatar.php?gravatar_id=a3ce4e45c979a8523a2098808847fcc5&amp;size=60&amp;default=http%3A%2F%2Fuse.perl.org%2Fimages%2Fpix.gif' alt='' />Yitna,</p>
<p>Thanks for the clarification about LinkTool, I was hoping the iframed integration was not the extent of it.  How exactly is Sakai going to integrate these external tools using this tool?  It was not clear to me and I would love some more information on this.  I imagine this would be a key component of joining a number of the &#8220;smaller&#8221; best of breed tools. Is the integration of these tools through LinkTool something a Java programmer would have to create? &#8211;or is it out-of-the-box? &#8211;or are these extensions/modules already available?</p>
<p>I guess I have a lot more to learn about the inner-working of Sakai, and I&#8217;m glad you responded here because I&#8217;m sure my impression of Sakai was far from entirely accurate.  At the same time, I wonder if Sakai promises more robust possibilities for collaboration than a handful of smaller, more agile tools that might be shaped into a larger, more heterogeneous learning network through which we can reflect and archive the mind of a university in a host of more flexible and portable formats.
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		<title>By: Yitna Firdyiwek</title>
		<link>http://bavatuesdays.com/how-open-source-is-sakai/comment-page-1/#comment-27639</link>
		<dc:creator>Yitna Firdyiwek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Sep 2007 15:07:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bavatuesdays.com/how-open-source-is-sakai/#comment-27639</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m one of the people working on the migration of CMS tools at UVa.  I am not a programmer, but my research background is in Instructional Technology.  Yes, we have a hard job ahead of us, especially in the area of integration of Sakai with teaching.  But I find the possibilities offered by Sakai as an open source tool infinitely more interesting than anything offered by a closed-box commercial system--however smooth and dependable it may be. 

Two things I would add to this conversation:  While I&#039;m not sure about how easy it will be to integrate Sakai in teaching, Sakai has already proved to be a terrific tool for collaboration in a wide variety of ways (including research across institutions).  In that capacity, my experience is that folks here have been very enthusiastic about the tool.  Second, the description in the above review of Sakai&#039;s LinkTool is not correct.  LinkTool, which in my opinion is a critical feature of Sakai, is not a tool for simply embeding web content (there is another tool for that appropriately named Web Content).  LinkTool is a webservices-based approach to hooking up with external applications.  I dabble in ColdFusion and have found no problem integrating my tools for authentication, grade submissions, etc. with Sakai.  In fact, we have also already tested using LinkTool to hook in, not only to Moodle course sites, but even to specific tools in Moodle (which, I admit, are in some cases much better than their counterparts in Sakai).  We are hoping to do the same with WordPress,  MediaWiki, .net tools, etc.  

How all this will turn out, I don&#039;t know.  But I know it will be exciting, and we will be hearing from many new voices.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><img style='float: right; margin-left: 10px;' src='http://www.gravatar.com/avatar.php?gravatar_id=358274f56476ffb1355b3e941d569278&amp;size=60&amp;default=http%3A%2F%2Fuse.perl.org%2Fimages%2Fpix.gif' alt='' />I&#8217;m one of the people working on the migration of CMS tools at UVa.  I am not a programmer, but my research background is in Instructional Technology.  Yes, we have a hard job ahead of us, especially in the area of integration of Sakai with teaching.  But I find the possibilities offered by Sakai as an open source tool infinitely more interesting than anything offered by a closed-box commercial system&#8211;however smooth and dependable it may be. </p>
<p>Two things I would add to this conversation:  While I&#8217;m not sure about how easy it will be to integrate Sakai in teaching, Sakai has already proved to be a terrific tool for collaboration in a wide variety of ways (including research across institutions).  In that capacity, my experience is that folks here have been very enthusiastic about the tool.  Second, the description in the above review of Sakai&#8217;s LinkTool is not correct.  LinkTool, which in my opinion is a critical feature of Sakai, is not a tool for simply embeding web content (there is another tool for that appropriately named Web Content).  LinkTool is a webservices-based approach to hooking up with external applications.  I dabble in ColdFusion and have found no problem integrating my tools for authentication, grade submissions, etc. with Sakai.  In fact, we have also already tested using LinkTool to hook in, not only to Moodle course sites, but even to specific tools in Moodle (which, I admit, are in some cases much better than their counterparts in Sakai).  We are hoping to do the same with WordPress,  MediaWiki, .net tools, etc.  </p>
<p>How all this will turn out, I don&#8217;t know.  But I know it will be exciting, and we will be hearing from many new voices.
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		<title>By: Center for Teaching &#38; Learning &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Sakai too academic?</title>
		<link>http://bavatuesdays.com/how-open-source-is-sakai/comment-page-1/#comment-27255</link>
		<dc:creator>Center for Teaching &#38; Learning &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Sakai too academic?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Sep 2007 01:45:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bavatuesdays.com/how-open-source-is-sakai/#comment-27255</guid>
		<description>[...] interesting, largely downbeat blog and comments on Sakai (here), incl. info that UVa is evidently going in that direction.Â  (h/t S. Downes as [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] interesting, largely downbeat blog and comments on Sakai (here), incl. info that UVa is evidently going in that direction.Â  (h/t S. Downes as [...]
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		<title>By: Carnet de liens sur le e-Learning &#187; Blog Archive &#187; How â€œopen-sourceâ€ is Sakai?</title>
		<link>http://bavatuesdays.com/how-open-source-is-sakai/comment-page-1/#comment-27192</link>
		<dc:creator>Carnet de liens sur le e-Learning &#187; Blog Archive &#187; How â€œopen-sourceâ€ is Sakai?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Sep 2007 14:23:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bavatuesdays.com/how-open-source-is-sakai/#comment-27192</guid>
		<description>[...] http://bavatuesdays.com/how-open-source-is-sakai/ [...]</description>
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