Just want to say that I’d considered that reading of slasher movies, the Vera Dika one. Especially a bunch of cocky, decadent teens getting their come-uppance. But this also leads into a whole new point – the advent of modern horror movies was with socially concious artists, we talked about Carpenter and Romero. Even the earlier exploitative horror makers were kind of writing their own visual language, conciously. But as it moved into the fully formed slasher pic, it also moved into studio hands and you can see the shift in ideology.

Newer movies – especially Eli Roth and Topher Grace (Saw, right?) kind of take us back to the film maker putting it in your face with a purpose (they say) but that provoked the ‘torture porn’ outrage, which I think is a kind of defensive reaction to the fact that our societies perpetrate death and destruction around the globe in real life. We don’t like our denial or ‘other’-izing of violence/death to be rudely interupted.

Got to say too, the idea of the Slasher POV shot, especially if it puts the male in the position of the killer murdering a female, is a few blog posts too.

Don’t make me start a film blog, Jim.

Also: does Ms. Bates count as a female slasher? I vote yes…okay maybe no. I vote maybe, then.

One more thing. Even more so than Blade, I would say Nightwatch took the vampire idea & took it to a whole new level of subculture. Highly recommended if you have not seen it, & if you have seen it, then you know what I mean!

@Andy,

But the term ’slasher film’ – I think it implies a second level of awareness in movie history that is later than ‘genre’. I think that movies that are thought of as ’slasher pics’ are self-aware and have a certain level of exploitation to them too.

Exactly, precisely the point! This idea of a Slasher film as its own sense of awareness within a moment of time is crucial. That idea of these films as both historical, political, and social is so key to the emergence of a term/genre such as slasher film. And you trace that history beautifully.

Anothe intersting point to think about would be the idea of POV in Slasher films, and their vicious attacks on women. Vera Dika, a film critic who was at UCLA when I was sitting in on classes in Melnitz theater —that is the single greatest educational experience in my life, no class just listening to Dika, and peter Wollen talk about film—talks about the space of the Slasher as a conservative reaction to the sex and drug crazed decade of the 70s, and links it with a Reagan era moment of family values. I loved hearing that in 1993, it was spellbinding. She also talks about why women were the focal point of such an attack in these films, and what it would mean to have a female psychopath–is there a famous one of those in that genre?

Awesome stuff, and I agree that Vampire films deserve their own space, and I would love to write that blog

@Brad,

This is brilliant, and nails it in my mind.

Okay, I realize 28 Days Later is not REALLY a zombie film, but that’s my whole point. Zombie films aren’t REALLY made anymore, since the genre has gone past the point of self-awareness.

The idea of this self awareness giving rise to a whole new sense of the genre, while remaining loosely within it is fascinating. And it is just that kind of thinking that begins to get us out of the very problematic (but I must admit fun) logic of it was better than, and it sucks now. Your points here allow me to think about the re-made Dawn of the Dead and 28 Days without the same kind of expectation and sense of loss, which is key. And what you say about Zombie as opposed to 28 Days is right on, it makes for a powerful comparison of two films framing their genre for a specific time and place, or as I like to think about it a decade of culture. That is why Blade was one of the single best films of the 90s, it re-imagined the Vampire film so creatively.

Did I say wow already? Let me do it again then, WOW!

What you are saying about the slasher flick, Andy, & what you are saying about the vampire film, Jim & Andy, I think are more in the same vein than you think. The vampire film, I mean to say, is a re-hashed genre of self-awareness that has gone through different forms as well, & just like the slasher movie has “Scream” (where the killers go step by step through slasher films & base their own murders on stereotypes of the slasher film — I love how meta-cognitive it is!), the vampire movie has things like “28 Days Later” or its sequel. The idea is that the genre has created movies wherein the characters are saying things like, “So they’re vampires?” The knowledge of the vampire is so self-aware that the vampire itself is obsolete & completely re-created. “28 Days Later” is actually fascinating (& I love this move, by the way, though I completely disregard the ending most times when I watch it) because it helped move both the vampire film & the zombie film into new realms of historic awareness. Whereas a zombie or vampire film might have been originally made to say, “What if this happened? How frightening that would be!”, the new films of the same sub-genre are saying, “We all know what this would be like, but what if it were actually POSSIBLE?”

Which kind of brings us back to the stylized realism thing. Taking editing & sound & whatever else denotes style or lack thereof out of it, the plots of the vampire & zombie movies are so much more historically realized now. What I mean is this: comparing, say, Fulci’s “Zombie” (or “Zombi 2,” as I suppose it was called in Europe?) to “28 Days Later,” the plot of the latter is far advanced in the direction of Man’s own realized potentials & faults. The plot of “Zombie” is unbelievable, based on a fictional “cursed island” where the dead rise again to prey on the living. The more recent films, however, are based on medical mistakes or human irrationalities — “28 Days Later” follows the wipe-out of the human race when an advanced viral form of what is basically rabies is let loose onto humanity. Okay, I realize 28 Days Later is not REALLY a zombie film, but that’s my whole point. Zombie films aren’t REALLY made anymore, since the genre has gone past the point of self-awareness.

Which, I suppose, is WHY slasher films are mostly re-makes. Not necessarily because Hollywood is out of original ideas (though this is mostly true as well), but because the genre has gone through its evolution & has come to the point where the killers KNOW they are slashers & they slash with the influence of 30 odd-years of self-aware slasher movies backing them up. That infamous line from “Scream” can basically sum up this entire argument in one question: “What’s your favorite scary movie?”

As to your ideas on the documentary, Jim, I have a lot to say about it but maybe I will just make a blog post instead because I like the direction these comments are taking with all this horror jargon. I am writing these films down, the beauty of the genre is that it is so re-done, making it endless. I am also in the middle of re-watching “High Tension” & I have a lot to say about claustrophobia in horror films, but I think I will just post about that, as well. “The Descent,” anyone? If you like your horror blacked-out & panting, if you like not knowing where you are at all, man that movie is for you.

Also, I was just discussing Little Edie & Grey Gardens with a friend of mine a couple nights ago, how coincidental for you to bring it up, Jim. I have not seen it yet, but it’s top of the list already!

Vampire Movies are a whole blog on their own But, the main attraction of the vampire story is all it’s possibilities – all the places you can go with it for levels of meaning and comment on our existence.

Near Dark captures parts of this in a very poetic way.

@Brad – the circle of culture debate is a common one and a bit suspect. Music – I mean, it all comes from the same 12 intervals etc etc.

But the term ’slasher film’ – I think it implies a second level of awareness in movie history that is later than ‘genre’. I think that movies that are thought of as ’slasher pics’ are self-aware and have a certain level of exploitation to them too.

I think there ‘were’ slasher pics that are genre pics about murder/terror – but at one point a self-aware, exploitative modern slasher pic was made and then all after that would be true slasher pics and all before it influences.

I guess what Im saying is that the advent of the slasher pic coincides with a post-modern mentality in film emerging. Eli Roth and even Wes Craven circa scream – are after the true slasher pics for me, because in order to make those films – there had to be an awareness of the existing genre – which then gets transformed again.

I think it was fully formed for Halloween and Friday the 13th – 1978 on … ran for the 80’s ..ebbed, and then Sream in 96 marked it’s having passed into history.

How arbitrary is all of that

Just though I’d throw it all out and see where it takes us.

Also, I love your points about the marketing to a cannibalistic prom market. The original was released after that time of year, actually July 18, 1980, to be precise (thanks to the beauty of Wikipedia!).

@Sebastian6,
I always think about th Ramones when I think about the Brad’s point about influence and th long tradition of remix and re-framing this stuff. And the Beach Boys influence on Ramones was an amazing break through moment for me in this whole idea, I mean The Ramones are bubble gum pop through and through, that is so cool about them, and makes Punk that much ore fascinating to me.

@Andy,
Near Dark!!! You are truly a man after my film heart. That is my favorite vampire film of the 80s along with Fright Night.I loved the whole idea of the nomad “family” of vampires in the midwest, the setting is perfect, and th final moment of emergence from immortality is very wild and scary in and of itself. I also love the way that film makes being a vampire a drag. It has its benefits, but it is a lot of work, as if they were itinerant workers. That is a solid horror, and makes the pantheon of great films of the 80s. Wikipedia notes on the production that Bigelow actually wanted to make a Western, but the interest of financial backers wasn;t there, so she fused it with the vampire film:

Kathryn Bigelow wanted to film a Western movie that departed from cinematic convention, which at the time was strongly identified with the films of John Wayne and John Ford. When she and co-writer Eric Red found financial backing for a Western difficult to obtain, it was suggested to them that they try mixing a Western with another, more popular genre. Her interest in revisionist interpretation of cinematic tradition led her and Red to the idea of combining two genres that they regarded as ripe for reinterpretation: the Western movie, and the vampire movie, whose conventions largely derived from Bela Lugosi’s performance in Dracula. The film was scored by the German electronic music group Tangerine Dream, who also penned the soundtracks for Risky Business and Legend.

Interestingly, I saw this on VHS from a good local video store that was featuring it, it got no play at all in the theaters.

Despite reviews etc, I really liked ‘30 days of night’.

But, what I want to say is … what do people think of Near Dark? I rewatched it very recently … it’s amazing. I think it works on every level including being scary. ‘Love’ the bar slaughter scene. And it has Bill Paxton and Lance Hendrickson in it.